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Re: Might end up with Kaepernick or RGIII after all....

Postby Don Gorgon on Fri May 19, 2017 11:19 am

you have just doomed us to a season of Kaepernick as starter, thanks
 
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Re: Might end up with Kaepernick or RGIII after all....

Postby Don Gorgon on Fri May 19, 2017 11:21 am

it is interesting how qb is the most important position on the team but has the least depth
 
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Re: Might end up with Kaepernick or RGIII after all....

Postby kc26 on Fri May 19, 2017 12:14 pm

Don Gorgon wrote:it is interesting how qb is the most important position on the team but has the least depth


It is interesting, but I think a few things explain it.

- It is the most expensive position on the team
- Your starter gets 98% of the snaps
- Rules implemented to maintain their health

Since everything offensively revolves around that position and the decisions that person makes, the relative value of your backup is much less than at other positions. Other positions can specialize in just a small part of the offense or defense like a linebacker in 3rd down pass rush, or a run stopping D lineman, or a 3rd down receiver and get on the field to help your team. Your backup quarterback is a clipboard holder. When the starter goes down the entire offense changes ...... timing, snap counts, which plays work best, etc because so much of it is developed on the starting quarterback's strengths and weaknesses. You can try to get one with similar strengths and weaknesses but it's like a fingerprint. No two are the same.
 
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Re: Might end up with Kaepernick or RGIII after all....

Postby Don Gorgon on Fri May 19, 2017 12:32 pm

sure, its the cost of a good qb, it went by the way when the cap was installed. You can't afford to invest in two of them. One way to do it is to look at it as a development position and use a cost controlled player, teams do that, the Packers and Patriots have gotten good value that way. I think other teams have taken the idea of a lack of depth to the extreme, the Hawks being one of them, only carrying a single backup for instance. Its a function of the roster and the question of using a spot for a player most likely never to play but on the other hand, again its the most important position on the field and its a calculated risk to cover it with only a single additional player, particularly one with no experience like we did last season
 
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Re: Might end up with Kaepernick or RGIII after all....

Postby kc26 on Fri May 19, 2017 1:22 pm

I'm not sure I even understand the term "developing" a quarterback. No doubt there is some mental learning for every quarterback coming out of college, but the backups do not get into games and probably get very few of the reps in practice.

I think many teams see it the same as I do and would prefer a backup who at least has some game experience. That part does not go away, and the rest can be taught (plays etc).
 
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Re: Might end up with Kaepernick or RGIII after all....

Postby Don Gorgon on Fri May 19, 2017 1:33 pm

you don't call having Garoppolo as a backup developing a qb? Or that the Packers developed Arron Rogers behind Farve? They do get snaps, they get them for the scout team...

here is an entire article on how the Packers developed Rogers

GREEN BAY, Wis. — In his rookie season, in 2005, Aaron Rodgers almost never played on Sundays. Instead, he played on Wednesdays, Thursdays, Fridays and Saturdays, in practice, against increasingly agitated teammates.

For Green Bay defenders, Saturday mornings were the worst. The plays for the scout team, run by Rodgers, were supposed to be scripted, the tempo purposely slow. Instead, Rodgers tossed deep passes and no-look passes and tight spirals, the kinds of throws that have come to define his M.V.P.-caliber 2011 season, which will continue Sunday on the road against the Giants.

By Week 11 of his rookie year, Rodgers said an assistant coach notified him that “the head man doesn’t appreciate all the Saturday no-look passes because you’re making the defense look bad.” He added, “He wants you to knock it off a little bit.”


http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/03/sport ... dgers.html
 
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Re: Might end up with Kaepernick or RGIII after all....

Postby Don Gorgon on Fri May 19, 2017 1:38 pm

it was considered Wolf's MO, to use the position for qb development. You either use them or trade them. That was why I was wondering if JS might go that same route being he studied under Wolf

"We used to do that I think every year in Green Bay years ago," said Gruden. "Mike Holmgren and Ron Wolf would bring in a quarterback at some point in the draft."

Indeed, the Packers had success drafting Ty Detmer and Mark Brunell in back-to-back years, '92 and '93, during Gruden's time with the organization.

That set the stage for a trend in which the Packers would develop backups to Brett Favre, making them valuable commodities and then trading them to other teams, such as they would eventually do with Matt Hasselbeck and Aaron Brooks.

And maybe it's time the Packers get back to the old method of selecting a developmental quarterback with Aaron Rodgers under contract through 2019 and Scott Tolzien signing a $1.35 million contract in the offseason.
 
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Re: Might end up with Kaepernick or RGIII after all....

Postby Don Gorgon on Fri May 19, 2017 1:54 pm

here is a Tampa Bay blogger looking at their backup situation, pretty much the same situation holds here in Seattle, you could go either direction. You could argue one or the other but there are two possibilities

Logic says the ideal backup behind a quarterback like Winston is a player established enough that the team could have a good chance to win in the starter's unexpected absence — a rookie would allow for more development and upside, but would put even more of a question mark on the dropoff if Winston were to get hurt. Toward that end, the Bucs are unlikely to use a draft pick on any quarterback this week, happy to know they have the kind of answer other teams still seek.
 
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Re: Might end up with Kaepernick or RGIII after all....

Postby D-Trains on Fri May 19, 2017 1:57 pm

Don Gorgon wrote:here is a Tampa Bay blogger looking at their backup situation, pretty much the same situation holds here in Seattle, you could go either direction. You could argue one or the other but there are two possibilities

Logic says the ideal backup behind a quarterback like Winston is a player established enough that the team could have a good chance to win in the starter's unexpected absence — a rookie would allow for more development and upside, but would put even more of a question mark on the dropoff if Winston were to get hurt. Toward that end, the Bucs are unlikely to use a draft pick on any quarterback this week, happy to know they have the kind of answer other teams still seek.


I thought our BU was awesome last year. Won us a game vs. the mighty 49ers after RW couldn't figure it out.

dt
 
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Re: Might end up with Kaepernick or RGIII after all....

Postby Don Gorgon on Fri May 19, 2017 2:05 pm

he might be, its up to PC to decide, there was talk about the Hawks drafting a qb, Clayton I believe predicted it, and I believe the reason would be to develop them, either as an eventual replacement or as trade value. If they think Boykin can be that guy then that is fine. I think that is what you want, you want a guy if you're going young, its a guy you project as being a possible starter. You either have a veteran backup or a rookie possible starter. If the rookie doesn't seem to have upside then you go find another one. Again, I thought that might be the way they would go but perhaps they will go veteran.
 
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