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Re: Very interesting QB pressure breakdown

Postby HawkBowler on Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:16 pm

Michael K 2 wrote:This O Line was probably worse those last seven games of 2015. Funny, Russ didn't run around or scramble, and we didn't give up many sacks. I love how this belief that him running around a lot somehow makes protecting him easier.



Stop saying you love what you hate...LOL

Did Wilson call the plays in 2015?

He is not by any stretch the biggest reason we struggle in pass protection, but he sure makes the line's job more difficult than if he stood in the pocket and threw on time. Whether that is on PC, Bevell, Cable, or Wilson doesn't matter. It in fact does make him harder to protect.


I just think that's nonsense. A non mobile QB is harder to protect. Wilson kept the offense from looking like a rebuilding team last year. He had zero help in the run game, only one RB TD all season. Our OL was equally bad at blocking for the run as they were in pass protection.

You're blaming the wrong guy.
 
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Re: Very interesting QB pressure breakdown

Postby Michael K 2 on Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:39 pm

Did you read my last statement? I am not blaming anyone, but this theory that having the ball in the QBs hands LONGER somehow makes him easier to protect is an odd one for sure. Once again, look at the end of 2015. The ball was out of his hands, he wasn't sacked. Crazy thought right?

I didn't say he was calling the plays. I also said I don't care if the reason he is holding the ball and running around in circles is on him, Bevell, Cable, or PC....it is an issue. Blame whom ever you want, this theory that somehow a QB who stays in the pocket and throws the ball quickly is impossible to protect, but the guy that holds it forever and is never in the same place from one play to the next isn't is a strange one.

I guess that must be why guys like Tom Brady, Joe Montana and Peyton Manning had such terrible careers. They just needed to move around and hold the ball longer and they would have been unstoppable!
 
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Re: Very interesting QB pressure breakdown

Postby D-Trains on Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:43 pm

These two statements aren't mutually exclusive. And they are both obviously true.

1. The longer the QB holds the ball, the more likely he is sacked.
2. A mobile QB avoids more sacks than a less mobile QB.

dt
 
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Re: Very interesting QB pressure breakdown

Postby HawkBowler on Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:12 pm

Michael K 2 wrote:
I guess that must be why guys like Tom Brady, Joe Montana and Peyton Manning had such terrible careers. They just needed to move around and hold the ball longer and they would have been unstoppable!


Well, that's where I think you're off. The Seahawks are not the Patriots. The plan on offense is not to throw the ball 50 times with a bunch of three step drops and pops. The Hawks like to run the ball and throw deep. Problem this last year is we couldn't run the ball and the OL couldn't protect Wilson long enough to throw deep.

Back in 2015, there were also problems running the ball as well, but not as bad. The Hawks ran a lot screens back then, so it's a wonder why they only did it a handful of times this season. 2015 was a bit of an aberration in playing style, even for the same season. Early on they ran the same type of tight sets, pound the ball up the middle on 1st and 2nd and then throw on third and long. Towards the end of the season, they were throwing more on 1st and 2nd downs, and they were taking shots at the end zone from outside the 20 yard line.

I would like to see that offense again, but I don't think that's what Pete wants. I want the Hawks to be in the gun or the pistol 90% of the time, with run/pass options out of each set. I think we could run just as well, can't get any worse after all, and the offense would be less predictable.

Schottenheimer is going to have some of the same problems this season because he has an ulta-conservative coach. I think the hope there is that they just become more efficient, because a completely different offensive philosophy is unlikely.
 
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Re: Very interesting QB pressure breakdown

Postby Michael K 2 on Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:03 pm

HawkBowler wrote:Back in 2015, there were also problems running the ball as well, but not as bad. The Hawks ran a lot screens back then, so it's a wonder why they only did it a handful of times this season. 2015 was a bit of an aberration in playing style, even for the same season. Early on they ran the same type of tight sets, pound the ball up the middle on 1st and 2nd and then throw on third and long. Towards the end of the season, they were throwing more on 1st and 2nd downs, and they were taking shots at the end zone from outside the 20 yard line.


In other words, back in 2015 we got behind the 8 ball trying to run an offense we didn't have the personnel to run. After that we decided we needed to run a quick passing game, went 5 and 1 and rescued the season. But because it isn't what PC wants to run we decided to go back to the offense he wants, despite the fact it doesn't fit his personnel?

HawkBowler wrote:I would like to see that offense again, but I don't think that's what Pete wants. I want the Hawks to be in the gun or the pistol 90% of the time, with run/pass options out of each set. I think we could run just as well, can't get any worse after all, and the offense would be less predictable.


Yeah, because finishing the season the way we did this year, 3 and 4 and missing the playoffs, was a lot better than the 5 and 1 finish in 2015. Good thing we ran the offense Pete wants.

HawkBowler wrote:Schottenheimer is going to have some of the same problems this season because he has an ulta-conservative coach. I think the hope there is that they just become more efficient, because a completely different offensive philosophy is unlikely.


Schotty will have problems because he is going to be told how to run an offense. Let's just hope he is told to look more into the passing attack that worked in 2015 and less into what hasn't worked since.
 
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Re: Very interesting QB pressure breakdown

Postby HawkBowler on Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:13 pm

Michael K 2 wrote:In other words, back in 2015 we got behind the 8 ball trying to run an offense we didn't have the personnel to run. After that we decided we needed to run a quick passing game, went 5 and 1 and rescued the season. But because it isn't what PC wants to run we decided to go back to the offense he wants, despite the fact it doesn't fit his personnel?


Your guess is as good as mine. The Hawks didn't try to continue the same offense at the start of 2016. They went back to the old style, even though they didn't have the same personnel as you pointed out.

What I meant by the same type of offense with BS.... is that the Hawks are still going to start slow. They're going to play possession ball and keep the score low and close. They will open up a little before the half. They will wait until the fourth quarter to take the shackles off of Russ....IF we're behind.

Look, I want the 2015 quick passing game with occasional deep shots. I want spread formations in the gun. I want to see more read option run and pass. But we've been through this now for 7 years. Pete is the oldest coach in the league, and he's had way too much success in his career to change now.

You know... change is not always a good thing. I think of Don Shula when he acquired Dan Marino. Up until that point of his career, Shula was a run-first, defensive coach. After Marino, he turned into blow-em-out coach. Early in his career, Shula won Super Bowls, including a perfect season. After Marino, he never won another title.
 
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Re: Very interesting QB pressure breakdown

Postby Michael K 2 on Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:20 pm

So, you would rather make no change and end up like last year? Since losing the Super Bowl, each season after this team has been a little worse.
 
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Re: Very interesting QB pressure breakdown

Postby D-Trains on Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:37 pm

Michael K 2 wrote:So, you would rather make no change and end up like last year? Since losing the Super Bowl, each season after this team has been a little worse.


I personally am happy that it appears PC is no longer focused on reliving the definition of insanity anymore but not going to count on having a 1st half offense until it hatches.

dt
 
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Re: Very interesting QB pressure breakdown

Postby HawkBowler on Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:46 pm

Michael K 2 wrote:So, you would rather make no change and end up like last year? Since losing the Super Bowl, each season after this team has been a little worse.


We do have to look at injuries this season as part of the downturn.

I don't see missing the playoffs after five straight years as a sign of regression. As you've said yourself, if we resigned Haushka instead of Walsh we're probably in the playoffs with good seeding.

Pete's philosophy of #1 run game + #1 scoring defense works. Look at three of the four teams playing for the conference championship. We need a good RB and better play from the OL. There's no reason the Hawks can't jump right back into contention next season with the same philosophy they had the last six years.
 
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Re: Very interesting QB pressure breakdown

Postby HawkBowler on Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:58 pm

D-Trains wrote:
I personally am happy that it appears PC is no longer focused on reliving the definition of insanity anymore but not going to count on having a 1st half offense until it hatches.

dt


What looks to us like a crappy first half of offense, say going into the locker room up 9-3, seems to be right where Pete wants it. The score is not as important as it is to establish the run, control the clock and play small ball. The reason, going by memory from Pete's book, is that eventually, you win the game going run 1st down, run 2nd down, throw... if you have to... A lot games come down to just making a first down or two in the fourth quarter. Hell, that's all the Falcons had to do against the Patriots in the last Super Bowl. I bet Pete saw that game as confirmation of his philosophy... it's not how you start, it's how you finish, but also not trying to trick the opponent, just outplay them. Pete believes that the offense should be concentrated on what they do regardless of what the defense is doing.
 
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