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Re: Thiel on trading RW

Postby Michael K 2 on Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:38 pm

HawkBowler wrote:All due respect altaholic, the QB position is the hardest one to fill in the NFL. The Seahawks themselves went decades without a legitimate QB at the helm. It makes zero sense to deal Wilson, probably the most accomplished QB in his age group, to another team.


So, you would rather hope the talent around him somehow improves and we win over the next couple of seasons? Because something tells me Russ may want more than what this team is becoming, more exposure. Hell, maybe that is why he asked for a trade to the Yankees? We laugh about Cousins, but we were damn close to having to franchise tag Russ the last time we went through this. That day may be coming.

Trading Wilson will not make this team better next season or even the season after. And I am in no way shape or form ready to re-build, but that very well may be the best option, despite my hope that it isn't.

HawkBowler wrote:The Rams, 49ers, and Cardinals still have questions at QB.


If we had a young QB who took a team without a win to five straight wins to end the season would you let anyone say we had a question? If we had a second year kid that lead his team to the playoffs and league leading point totals, would you let anyone say we had a question? You are quite possibly the biggest homer hypocrite in here. I mean, you are the same person who doubts the Patriots 17 year run but talks about the Seahawks like they are a dynasty after one ring!

HawkBowler wrote:I don't think the late five game winning streak for the 49ers is indicative of what they will do next season. There's still a lot of holes on this team since the great Harbaugh exit.


Key word here. Think. For years we talked in here about Vegas odds to win the Super Bowl and how everyone says we are the most talented team in the league. Now that those things don't favor us we want to poo poo them. This team is no longer the most talented in the Division, and probably closer to AZ than SF.

HawkBowler wrote:The Rams are loaded with talent, but they did that through years of losing while collecting blue chip 1st round picks. The Hawks have not recquited as well. Then again, they've been in the playoffs every year and had to draft at the bottom of each round every year. The Rams are in danger of the sophomore slump ala Cowboys of last year.


So, you point out all the talent in LA and how we haven't kept pace, and that is somehow supposed to bode well for us?

HawkBowler wrote:The Cardinals don't have Palmer or a legit QB at the moment. They could pickup Cousins or another QB on the market and still be pretty good next season. But this is an old team. Arians is out.... all signs point to rebuild vs contention.


Considering the fact that they seem to beat us at least once a year regardless of how good they are, them now being the worst team in the division hardly fills me with confidence.

HawkBowler wrote:The Hawks have some rebuild work to do at RB, the OL and the defensive secondary. Still, there's plenty of talent on the team and they should enter next season as the best team in the NFC West. Next season should actually be fun because they will be back to the underdog role... like they were in 2012 and 2013.


I would add WR and TE to your list of rebuild, especially if Jimmy and P Rich are gone. And you really think we may return one starter on the D Line, but don't need to rebuild there?

Besides QB and LB, I am not sure we are anywhere near as good as we were just one year ago today. You remember, the season we missed the playoffs?
 
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Re: Thiel on trading RW

Postby The Oracle on Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:45 pm

Consider, two first round draft picks from Cleveland. Perhaps, a one and two this spring?

Judiciously, those two high picks can get us a shot at good players and/or then a possible move down the ladder for additional picks. Might solve a number of needs... Seahawks have needs!
 
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Re: Thiel on trading RW

Postby HawkBowler on Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:00 pm

If we had a young QB who took a team without a win to five straight wins to end the season would you let anyone say we had a question? If we had a second year kid that lead his team to the playoffs and league leading point totals, would you let anyone say we had a question?


Wilson IS a young QB. You're kidding right? You praise Brady who's a grandfather, never mention the age issue, but now it's Wilson that's getting long in the tooth and the Hawks should look to get younger at QB?

Nonsense, Wilson still has at least 10 years of football in front him.

Look, we're just giving our opinions. However, anyone who puts Jimmy G or Jared Goff or even Kirk Cousins in the same category as Wilson is not being serious. Call me a homer, but you sound like you don't know football at all. Only Brady has had a better start to his career in NFL history.

Wilson was what... 90% of our offense last year? Yes, I think that all we need to do is build up around him. That's obvious.

This team is no longer the most talented in the Division, and probably closer to AZ than SF.


Stop, San Francisco sucks. The Cards are on the verge of rebuild. Rams are good, but I still think the Hawks are better.

We missed the playoffs last season but we didn't fall off the map. You give all these reasons for a downfall, but you know full well that we would have made the playoffs with only one change to the team --- Haushka instead of Walsh.
 
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Re: Thiel on trading RW

Postby Michael K 2 on Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:58 pm

HawkBowler wrote:
Wilson IS a young QB. You're kidding right? You praise Brady who's a grandfather, never mention the age issue, but now it's Wilson that's getting long in the tooth and the Hawks should look to get younger at QB?

Nonsense, Wilson still has at least 10 years of football in front him.


Your homeristic tendencies have completely caused you to miss the point. Never once did I compare Brady or Wilson to the QB situation in SF or LA. I pointed out to you that if we had their situation you would not say we have questions.

I also pointed out that your constant efforts to discredit nearly two decades of dominance by the Patriots and pump up two NFC Championships by us also proves your inability to be unbiased. You are a giant homer who doesn't realize that if you actually acknowledge something else is good doesn't mean you are a hater of your own team. That is what I brought up, that your critique of everyone else's flaws needs to be taken with a grain of homer salt.

HawkBowler wrote:Look, we're just giving our opinions. However, anyone who puts Jimmy G or Jared Goff or even Kirk Cousins in the same category as Wilson is not being serious. Call me a homer, but you sound like you don't know football at all. Only Brady has had a better start to his career in NFL history.


If you can please re-read, you will see I never mention Wilson as a comp to, nor do I compare any other QB to the ones playing in LA or SF.

HawkBowler wrote:Wilson was what... 90% of our offense last year? Yes, I think that all we need to do is build up around him. That's obvious.


Who has said we don't? As I said, he may be tired of waiting on us to do just that. I mean, last year would have been the year to do it right? Yet we came into the season depending on a 7th round RB and an aging defense to save us. When they couldn't we decided that asking Wilson to run around all day and prey was the second best option. He may be interested in the grass on the other side of the fence. Especially when he has seen first hand the talent elsewhere in the league.

HawkBowler wrote:Stop, San Francisco sucks. The Cards are on the verge of rebuild. Rams are good, but I still think the Hawks are better.


SF sucks? Why? Because your Blue and Green glasses make you see that? I don't think they are a playoff team either, but they sure aren't being talked about in the same way they were just one year ago right? Guess who else isn't being talked about the same just 12 months later? Us. Sometimes the experts say things for a reason, because they know more than you. It sure is funny that when everyone said we were the best you were quoting them all over the place. Now they think we are third best in our division and they are idiots. Odd.

HawkBowler wrote:We missed the playoffs last season but we didn't fall off the map. You give all these reasons for a downfall, but you know full well that we would have made the playoffs with only one change to the team --- Haushka instead of Walsh.


I don't know that at all. Because I don't know what moves they would have made otherwise. The bottom line is this FO decided to sign Walsh and Lacy. I don't see how it is a feather in our cap to know that is the move they decided to make. Everyone hates on Walsh, but he was a shitty kicker before he got here. Why was he brought here?

No, we didn't fall off the map. Maybe we should have. Getting a better draft pick and a lesser schedule may have helped more than missing the playoffs the way we did. Especially after the way we collapsed....all of a sudden December and the Home Field can't save us. We may have been better off with a top 10 pick and a 3rd place schedule next season.

I hope you are right, but this is every year for you. The Pats are going to crumble, everyone else in our division is going to crumble and we are going to rule the NFC because Wilson will simply decide it is so. Each year this prediction of yours has become less and less accurate.
 
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Re: Thiel on trading RW

Postby ThePro on Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:12 pm

The Oracle wrote:Consider, two first round draft picks from Cleveland. Perhaps, a one and two this spring?

Judiciously, those two high picks can get us a shot at good players and/or then a possible move down the ladder for additional picks. Might solve a number of needs... Seahawks have needs!



So you're going to fill your other needs and create a hole at t he most important position to do so? No thanks.
 
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Re: Thiel on trading RW

Postby HawkBowler on Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:49 pm

Michael K2 wrote:Each year this prediction of yours has become less and less accurate.


I predicted that Bellichick and Brady will never win another Super Bowl. So far so good. :D

As I said, he [Wilson] may be tired of waiting on us to do just that. I mean, last year would have been the year to do it right? Yet we came into the season depending on a 7th round RB and an aging defense to save us. When they couldn't we decided that asking Wilson to run around all day and prey was the second best option. He may be interested in the grass on the other side of the fence. Especially when he has seen first hand the talent elsewhere in the league.


You have zero evidence to back up the assertion that Wilson is considering playing somewhere else. Is that wishful thinking on your part? He wants a more talented team? You mean more talented the most talented team in the NFC over the last six years? Oh sure... I bet he wants to play for a team with no defense that hasn't made the playoffs in 10 years.

Lacey was supposed to be our vet to go along with several young prospects. I'm not sure what happened with Lacey. I know he didn't get the ball very often. I'm currently blaming the run game on Cable, who was one of the worst coaches we ever had. Maybe the Hawks should have played Lacey more... it's not like we had better options on the team. Also, ... and this one is sure to burn your chap.... I think the Hawks should have kept C Mike. You can't say that we've had a better RB since him.

So there... that's my homer views with a grain of salt.

You should be careful playing the anti-homer because you sound crazy criticizing one of the best QBs and defenses in the league. Anti-homer does not equal well informed or better opinionated.
 
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Re: Thiel on trading RW

Postby Captain 97 on Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:55 pm

HawkBowler wrote:All due respect altaholic, the QB position is the hardest one to fill in the NFL. The Seahawks themselves went decades without a legitimate QB at the helm.


Actually, other then a brief period of time in the 90's the Hawks have always seemed to have a legitimate QB. They Rolled from Zorn Right in to Dave Kreig. Which covered 1976-1991 And from Hasselbeck almost right into Russell Wilson with just one year of t-jack in between. That covers 2001-present. Even in the 90's Moon and Kitna were not exactly disasters at QB so it was really only 92-96 which included the Mirer debacle where they were really hurting at QB.
 
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Re: Thiel on trading RW

Postby HawkBowler on Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:08 pm

I love Jim Zorn, but he wasn't a good QB. I liked David Krieg, but the man fumbled and threw picks like no other QB. So you really can't put those guys in the great QB category.

Hasselbeck I'll give ya. A 59 year old Warren Moon by the time we got him? Sure.

My point, though, is that Wilson is by far the best QB we've ever had when we had em....

Now people talking about wanting to give him up as if that would make the team better... as if we could just go down to the corner store and order a new one... that's just crazy talk to me.

A good team starts with a good QB. We have that already. That's a position we don't need to worry about. We need an RB, maybe an OL or two, another big receiver, and at least one more DL. We have some holes, but we've also seen the Hawks fill holes quickly. Once you have a hole a QB that hole is bound to stay around for a long time. Look at the Dolphins trying to replace Marino or the Browns trying to replace Bernie Kosar. It's extremely rare to go from great QB to great QB.... the Colts with Manning to Luck is one example, but it doesn't happen very often. Once you have a pro bowl franchise QB you keep that guy until he's no longer pro bowl franchise quality. I don't think anyone is making that argument concerning Russ.
 
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Re: Thiel on trading RW

Postby D-Trains on Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:48 pm

ThePro wrote:
The Oracle wrote:Consider, two first round draft picks from Cleveland. Perhaps, a one and two this spring?

Judiciously, those two high picks can get us a shot at good players and/or then a possible move down the ladder for additional picks. Might solve a number of needs... Seahawks have needs!



So you're going to fill your other needs and create a hole at t he most important position to do so? No thanks.


I am not at all impressed with the QBs in the Draft. Pac 12 kids and a walk on. No thanks.

dt
 
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Re: Thiel on trading RW

Postby D-Trains on Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:52 pm

Captain 97 wrote:
HawkBowler wrote:All due respect altaholic, the QB position is the hardest one to fill in the NFL. The Seahawks themselves went decades without a legitimate QB at the helm.


Actually, other then a brief period of time in the 90's the Hawks have always seemed to have a legitimate QB. They Rolled from Zorn Right in to Dave Kreig. Which covered 1976-1991 And from Hasselbeck almost right into Russell Wilson with just one year of t-jack in between. That covers 2001-present. Even in the 90's Moon and Kitna were not exactly disasters at QB so it was really only 92-96 which included the Mirer debacle where they were really hurting at QB.


I was thinking the same. Horrific few years in the early to mid 90s but other than that we have been very fortunate in that dept. Gelbaugh, Friez, Mirer, McGwire et al but very brief for sure.

dt
 
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