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Honesty? Cano vs Cuban

Postby Auburn Terry on Wed May 16, 2018 8:31 am

I guess I'm a little confused about values in today's world. My dad told me to never lie to him.... even if I knew he'd be disappointed with my answer, cause he wanted truth between us and no matter what the situation was, we could work it out because he was my dad and I was his son...

So Cano, who I really liked, is a cheater and a liar.... and he gets rewarded
And Cuban, who owns the Mavericks and who I don't really like much, tells the truth and he gets the double whammy...

While we were at spring training filled with expectation watching the guys work out, Cano already knew he had been caught by the MLB using a masking agent and he was facing a suspension. The MLB knew it. His agent knew it. But because of the player's union, and the fact that Cano was not forth right, trying to keep it covered up while he was appealing and trying to beat the rap..... the Seattle Mariners did not know, and the fans did not know. Thus the M's were deprived of any opportunity to make adjustments, like another outfielder so Gordon could play second, or another middle infielder of high quality.... they were also deprived of the knowledge of an impending 12 million dollar windfall in the upcoming suspension which would have granted them additional options. And Cano, goes on as though nothing has happened... Well now he can forget the Hall of Fame, now the Yankees will stop harping about this exYankee headed for the Hall, and when Cano returns to resume his laissez faire rambles up the first base line, he'll probably have to endure some smatterings of boos in the crowd (I hope). Disappointed? No... Disgusted is more like it.... I'm no holier than thou guy.... I've made some big mistakes and paid dearly .... but I don't try to hide it.... It's been liberating to endeavor to always follow my dad's advice and not allow past mistakes to rule my future...

Now Mark Cuban.... Cuban decides to tank away the last month of the season as the Mavericks were scuffling and he wanted to increase his opportunities at the lottery draw. Now, I have advocated tanking for the draft, teams do it, have done it, and will continue to do it. They simply play their young players, give them chances to improve and be evaluated, and run out the season. So Cuban simply did this, he played his rookies the last month, lost 12 out of 15, dropped 4 places in the lottery, and had the second best chance to get the top lottery pick. Problem was, he was honest about it, said he was going to play the younger players, investing in evaluation and a better lottery position.... He got fined by the league for his honesty, and he got bad karma... cause he got nothing good in the lottery draw despite his position. He won't be drafting any of the top three players.... guess in the new world, honesty doesn't pay...
 
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Re: Honesty? Cano vs Cuban

Postby D-Trains on Wed May 16, 2018 8:48 am

Auburn Terry wrote:I guess I'm a little confused about values in today's world. My dad told me to never lie to him.... even if I knew he'd be disappointed with my answer, cause he wanted truth between us and no matter what the situation was, we could work it out because he was my dad and I was his son...

So Cano, who I really liked, is a cheater and a liar.... and he gets rewarded
And Cuban, who owns the Mavericks and who I don't really like much, tells the truth and he gets the double whammy...

While we were at spring training filled with expectation watching the guys work out, Cano already knew he had been caught by the MLB using a masking agent and he was facing a suspension. The MLB knew it. His agent knew it. But because of the player's union, and the fact that Cano was not forth right, trying to keep it covered up while he was appealing and trying to beat the rap..... the Seattle Mariners did not know, and the fans did not know. Thus the M's were deprived of any opportunity to make adjustments, like another outfielder so Gordon could play second, or another middle infielder of high quality.... they were also deprived of the knowledge of an impending 12 million dollar windfall in the upcoming suspension which would have granted them additional options. And Cano, goes on as though nothing has happened... Well now he can forget the Hall of Fame, now the Yankees will stop harping about this exYankee headed for the Hall, and when Cano returns to resume his laissez faire rambles up the first base line, he'll probably have to endure some smatterings of boos in the crowd (I hope). Disappointed? No... Disgusted is more like it.... I'm no holier than thou guy.... I've made some big mistakes and paid dearly .... but I don't try to hide it.... It's been liberating to endeavor to always follow my dad's advice and not allow past mistakes to rule my future...

Now Mark Cuban.... Cuban decides to tank away the last month of the season as the Mavericks were scuffling and he wanted to increase his opportunities at the lottery draw. Now, I have advocated tanking for the draft, teams do it, have done it, and will continue to do it. They simply play their young players, give them chances to improve and be evaluated, and run out the season. So Cuban simply did this, he played his rookies the last month, lost 12 out of 15, dropped 4 places in the lottery, and had the second best chance to get the top lottery pick. Problem was, he was honest about it, said he was going to play the younger players, investing in evaluation and a better lottery position.... He got fined by the league for his honesty, and he got bad karma... cause he got nothing good in the lottery draw despite his position. He won't be drafting any of the top three players.... guess in the new world, honesty doesn't pay...


Awesome post, brother.

dt
 
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Re: Honesty? Cano vs Cuban

Postby openup58 on Wed May 16, 2018 9:03 am

I posted this under STONES front page article:

This should absolutely no effect on his first ballot HOF election. He did not take steroids or HGH. This entire thing to me is blown out of proportion! If MLB wants to count this as a band substance then it should be categorized separately from true PED supplements. This should be taken from 80 games to something like 10-20 games as it has no effect on performance. Either way, Cano is a lock for HOF and this will not tarnish his great career!

Also I except Cano's reason and believe him, why would you think he is lying especially since he did not deny it??!!!

Cano will be remembered as one the greatest to have ever played in Seattle IMO
 
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Re: Honesty? Cano vs Cuban

Postby D-Trains on Wed May 16, 2018 9:16 am

openup58 wrote:I posted this under STONES front page article:

This should absolutely no effect on his first ballot HOF election. He did not take steroids or HGH. This entire thing to me is blown out of proportion! If MLB wants to count this as a band substance then it should be categorized separately from true PED supplements. This should be taken from 80 games to something like 10-20 games as it has no effect on performance. Either way, Cano is a lock for HOF and this will not tarnish his great career!

Also I except Cano's reason and believe him, why would you think he is lying especially since he did not deny it??!!!

Cano will be remembered as one the greatest to have ever played in Seattle IMO


Actually that is incorrect:

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IMPORTANT ON CANO: players are NOT automatically suspended for using diuretics. The suspension means MLB was able to prove he was using it to mask a drug. Cano tested positive before the season, appealed and dropped the appeal.
 
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Re: Honesty? Cano vs Cuban

Postby David Gee 24 on Wed May 16, 2018 9:24 am

openup58 wrote:I posted this under STONES front page article:

This should absolutely no effect on his first ballot HOF election. He did not take steroids or HGH. This entire thing to me is blown out of proportion! If MLB wants to count this as a band substance then it should be categorized separately from true PED supplements. This should be taken from 80 games to something like 10-20 games as it has no effect on performance. Either way, Cano is a lock for HOF and this will not tarnish his great career!

Also I except Cano's reason and believe him, why would you think he is lying especially since he did not deny it??!!!

Cano will be remembered as one the greatest to have ever played in Seattle IMO


How do know he did not take steroids or HGH? Are you his conjoined twin? That's an odd assertion.What he took is a well-known masking agent and it's worth noting that Cano has not said anything about why he took it. Also, why would he deny it, they popped him on the piss test, and like everyone else who got caught his agency wrote for him the cookie-cutter "I didn't know/I would never do anything to dishonor the game/I accept the decision/I look forward to getting back to playing and helping my team win" phony statement. Seriously, I think every sports agent has that form letter in their Microsoft Word files. He's put all the suspicion on himself and if his reputation is ruined and he has no chance at the HOF, that's on him. It's not on the press and it's not on the fans.

As for Cuban tanking, it's okay to say you're going to play the younger players and maybe you'll sacrifice games in doing so, but at the very least add that you expect them to improve and win games, otherwise they won't be a part of the team's future. I think that would be fair to his fan base instead of straight up telling them they're paying a lot of money to see almost intentionally awful basketball.
 
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Re: Honesty? Cano vs Cuban

Postby Auburn Terry on Wed May 16, 2018 9:46 am

Yeah, Openup.... sorry to burst your bubble... but the only reason Cano gave up his appeal was the MLB was able to prove he took the masking agent to cover illegal PED's.
 
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Re: Honesty? Cano vs Cuban

Postby harmony55 on Wed May 16, 2018 10:12 am

Auburn Terry wrote:Yeah, Openup.... sorry to burst your bubble... but the only reason Cano gave up his appeal was the MLB was able to prove he took the masking agent to cover illegal PED's.

I've dealt with the issue of intent for years. How did MLB prove intent?

MLB reportedly thought it had enough evidence to prove intent and I surmise that for months Robinson Cano contested the issue of whether he had intent. When his injury occurred Cano dropped his appeal, accepting the sanction without admitting intent.

Cano may or may not be a cheater but he clearly tested positive for a banned substance and is paying the price.
 
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Re: Honesty? Cano vs Cuban

Postby openup58 on Wed May 16, 2018 11:17 am

Auburn Terry wrote:Yeah, Openup.... sorry to burst your bubble... but the only reason Cano gave up his appeal was the MLB was able to prove he took the masking agent to cover illegal PED's.


Where has it said that he used it to mask another drug. Sure it can be used for that, but where is the PROOF. If he did not test positive for an actual PED, then how can you prove it was used for masking it? He would have to test positive for something to prove the Diuretic was used to mask it.

So until there is a smoking GUN for a steroid or HGH then all he did was take a banned drug which to me is no where near a 80 game suspension.

Sorry I am in Cano's corner and will stand behind him until they can prove he took something other than a diuretic which I take every day!
Last edited by openup58 on Wed May 16, 2018 1:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: Honesty? Cano vs Cuban

Postby Michael K 2 on Wed May 16, 2018 11:21 am

Since I have to assume that Robbie wasn't going to simply forfeit 12 million for the good of the team after his injury I have to believe there is something to it. The easy answer is that he wasn't able to prove that there was any medical reason for him to take a diuretic?
 
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Re: Honesty? Cano vs Cuban

Postby SeaFreak on Wed May 16, 2018 11:43 am

3 cheaters on the team with Nellie, Dee, and Robbie... All extremely likeable characters and great players. I think it's one of those deals where you have to consider how many players simply don't get caught as well as how many players take all kinds of juice and still can't break out of AAA. I hope we see #22 come back strong. I'm saddened by the thought that this may cost Cano the Hall, because Cano is one of my favorite all-time Mariners along with Griffey, Edgar, and Felix. This was just such crappy news. Cano's "statement" is definitely pure horse manure. He was juicing in the offseason, and they busted him.

One thing this does refute is the idea that a guy with a guaranteed contract won't still juice. Someone once told me Cruz wasn't juicing because he already got paid. Well, maybe the guy likes hitting 450 foot bombs and winning games.

BTW... Has anyone in any major sport ever been able to return from a suspension, make the playoffs, and then be forced to sit out for the playoffs? What a dumb rule.

As for Cuban, there are some ethics stating you should put the most competitive team out there rather than hand over wins to the opposition. However, the tanking strategy is as old as time. The Spurs pulled an epic tank which landed them Tim Duncan. There was also the Mariners who won the last 3 of the season to miss a chance on Strasberg.
 
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