Advertising

Re: Russia/Trump Connections - Fleshing Out the Story

Postby HawkBowler on Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:18 pm

Soggyblogger wrote:
This post of yours is all conjecture and opinion. You failed to respond to what I said. This is not about proving Russian "rigged" or "influenced" the election. This is about Russia ATTEMPTING to influence the election, and that has already been proven to our intelligence community. This investigation is to determine if Trump team members possibly including Trump, knew about, and or coordinated with that Russian ATTEMPT to influence our election.



Nothing has been proven, Soggy. You're believing the Obama lie that all 17 IC agencies including the US Coast guard agree with the report. That didn't happen. None of those agencies actually investigated. Instead, the report was authored by one man -- James Clapper... the same guy that keeps lying to us about what our intel community has been doing. James Comey and John Brennan also signed off on the report, but again, these are Obama appointed people. When Obama ordered the intel report he also ordered the desired conclusion, i.e., Russia interfered with the election and they wanted Trump to win. The report doesn't even attempt to prove those allegations. It's all about creating a consensus of opinion.

Did you know that Russia is now investigating US interference in their elections?

http://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/03/18 ... ng-abroad/

If I were a betting man, I would put my money on the US as being more likely to try to influence a foreign election.
 
Posts: 7862
Joined: Fri May 15, 2009 7:46 am
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Russia/Trump Connections - Fleshing Out the Story

Postby HawkBowler on Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:25 pm

Soggyblogger wrote:One of the facts that you have wrong, HBer is that the "Russian Report" you refer to as the basis of all of this is not the basis of any of this. The FBI has categorically stated that long ago. Plus, it was much later than the original intercepts by friendly foreign counter-intelligence agencies that DID get this ball rolling and causing multiple investigations on this subject as reported in the Guardian.



There you go with the low info again. Remember when Sessions was taken down? That was due to a question that Al Franken asked based on the dossier. The FBI investigation of Carter Page is because of the dossier.

http://www.newsweek.com/carter-page-fbi ... ier-586052

Your Guardian story is fake news.

'Friendly foreign counter-intelligence"..... LOL... I'm surprised you didn't fit the word 'incidental' into that line. It's called spying, Soggy.
 
Posts: 7862
Joined: Fri May 15, 2009 7:46 am
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Russia/Trump Connections - Fleshing Out the Story

Postby Soggyblogger on Wed Apr 19, 2017 3:06 pm

So everyone in the regular media is all forcing this fake news on us, huh? Sounds like a tinfoil hat position to me. CNN fake. NBC fake. The Guardian fake. The New Yorker fake. MSNBC fake. Huffpost fake. LA Times fake. Seattle Times must also be fake. They are all fake except maybe Breitbart? And Trump Tweets are all that is real? And the left owns them all somehow. Even though some really rich people supposedly own them. Washington Post is fake. New York Times is fake. Fake, fake, fake.

And @aurorave: Remember the "the enemy of my enemy is my friend"? Well,, I agree Putin didn't like Hillary. So who was Hillary's enemy? Trump. So making deals with Trump to keep Hillary out of the WH makes all the sense in the world, but you claim that makes no sense because he hated Hillary so much he didn't need any help. Didn't have any need to organize with Trump. Yet, spies being recorded conversations talked about Team Trump members and got together with them. Then when asked, those people at first denied having talked to those Russians. Why deny having those meetings?
 
Posts: 2182
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 5:06 pm
Location: Alaska

Re: Russia/Trump Connections - Fleshing Out the Story

Postby HawkBowler on Wed Apr 19, 2017 3:36 pm

Soggyblogger wrote:So everyone in the regular media is all forcing this fake news on us, huh? Sounds like a tinfoil hat position to me. CNN fake. NBC fake. The Guardian fake. The New Yorker fake. MSNBC fake. Huffpost fake. LA Times fake. Seattle Times must also be fake. They are all fake except maybe Breitbart? And Trump Tweets are all that is real? And the left owns them all somehow. Even though some really rich people supposedly own them. Washington Post is fake. New York Times is fake. Fake, fake, fake.



When it comes to politics? Yes.

How else do you explain the disparity in coverage? 90% of the media reports negatively on Trump, regardless of what he does.

http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/ric ... dent-trump

What they're doing is feeding you what you want. You want dirt on Trump. You want to hear that there's some truth to the Russian conspiracy... so they give it to you.

Doesn't make it true... and you yourself continue to talk in "ifs" and "maybes" and let's find out if our tin foil hat theories are actually correct.

Our corporate controlled media is actually a small group of people, only six companies now. These companies reside on the coasts with a heavy liberal bias. This has always been the case, but now it's different because they're protecting crooked politicians doing crooked things... whether it's Hillary with her illegal server or pay-to-play schemes or Obama spying on political opponents (which he has done many times).
 
Posts: 7862
Joined: Fri May 15, 2009 7:46 am
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Russia/Trump Connections - Fleshing Out the Story

Postby Soggyblogger on Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:30 pm

HawkBowler wrote:
Soggyblogger wrote:So everyone in the regular media is all forcing this fake news on us, huh? Sounds like a tinfoil hat position to me. CNN fake. NBC fake. The Guardian fake. The New Yorker fake. MSNBC fake. Huffpost fake. LA Times fake. Seattle Times must also be fake. They are all fake except maybe Breitbart? And Trump Tweets are all that is real? And the left owns them all somehow. Even though some really rich people supposedly own them. Washington Post is fake. New York Times is fake. Fake, fake, fake.



When it comes to politics? Yes.

How else do you explain the disparity in coverage? 90% of the media reports negatively on Trump, regardless of what he does.

http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/ric ... dent-trump

What they're doing is feeding you what you want. You want dirt on Trump. You want to hear that there's some truth to the Russian conspiracy... so they give it to you.

Doesn't make it true... and you yourself continue to talk in "ifs" and "maybes" and let's find out if our tin foil hat theories are actually correct.

Our corporate controlled media is actually a small group of people, only six companies now. These companies reside on the coasts with a heavy liberal bias. This has always been the case, but now it's different because they're protecting crooked politicians doing crooked things... whether it's Hillary with her illegal server or pay-to-play schemes or Obama spying on political opponents (which he has done many times).


It would be quicker to try and find something you said which is true above. Ah, yes, maybe 90% of media reports on Trump are negative. I might agree with that statement, however, the reason is that Trump is 90% full of crap. He lies. His cronies lie. They get caught. They do various things to avoid admitting they lied, but that just keeps the story going. Trump deports dreamers. Trump denies children entering our country but is outraged by those same children being gassed. Trump tweets stupid things. The press reports it. Jeez. Of course they do. It was a stupid tweet by the President of the United States. This isn't high school. I agree with a few of his policies, but the man is a disaster. So, yea, 90% of what I read about Trump is negative.
 
Posts: 2182
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 5:06 pm
Location: Alaska

Re: Russia/Trump Connections - Fleshing Out the Story

Postby godawgs28 on Wed Apr 19, 2017 5:30 pm

HawkBowler wrote:
Soggyblogger wrote:So everyone in the regular media is all forcing this fake news on us, huh? Sounds like a tinfoil hat position to me. CNN fake. NBC fake. The Guardian fake. The New Yorker fake. MSNBC fake. Huffpost fake. LA Times fake. Seattle Times must also be fake. They are all fake except maybe Breitbart? And Trump Tweets are all that is real? And the left owns them all somehow. Even though some really rich people supposedly own them. Washington Post is fake. New York Times is fake. Fake, fake, fake.



When it comes to politics? Yes.

How else do you explain the disparity in coverage? 90% of the media reports negatively on Trump, regardless of what he does.

http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/ric ... dent-trump

What they're doing is feeding you what you want. You want dirt on Trump. You want to hear that there's some truth to the Russian conspiracy... so they give it to you.

Doesn't make it true... and you yourself continue to talk in "ifs" and "maybes" and let's find out if our tin foil hat theories are actually correct.

Our corporate controlled media is actually a small group of people, only six companies now. These companies reside on the coasts with a heavy liberal bias. This has always been the case, but now it's different because they're protecting crooked politicians doing crooked things... whether it's Hillary with her illegal server or pay-to-play schemes or Obama spying on political opponents (which he has done many times).



Wait, you actually believe that all of those respected outlets are fake?

All this time I thought you were just using hyperbole.

Guess why 90% of his coverage is negative....... He is an epic and incompetent buffoon.

If you want ABC to report positive things, tell your boy to grow up.
 
Posts: 2196
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2010 6:12 pm
Location: Phoenix AZ

Re: Russia/Trump Connections - Fleshing Out the Story

Postby HawkBowler on Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:39 am

Soggyblogger wrote:It would be quicker to try and find something you said which is true above. Ah, yes, maybe 90% of media reports on Trump are negative. I might agree with that statement, however, the reason is that Trump is 90% full of crap. He lies. His cronies lie. They get caught. They do various things to avoid admitting they lied, but that just keeps the story going. Trump deports dreamers. Trump denies children entering our country but is outraged by those same children being gassed. Trump tweets stupid things. The press reports it. Jeez. Of course they do. It was a stupid tweet by the President of the United States. This isn't high school. I agree with a few of his policies, but the man is a disaster. So, yea, 90% of what I read about Trump is negative.


So why did half the country vote for Trump? Oh, that's right -- they are stupid, racist sexist Hitler wannabes.

This is demagoguery Soggy. We're at a time now where the left should be opposing Trump's agenda. I'm talking about the actual agenda instead of just going after scalps. While Trump is dismantling the EPA, for example, the MSM is focusing on things that don't matter to progressives. Is Trump's tax return the biggest issue we have in this country? Do we really need to debate the last election while raising tensions with Russia?

The media hates Trump because he was the first one to challenge their BS and win. The MSM does the same thing every election cycle. They try to play gotcha, and when a politician makes a mistake, they play holier than thou and demand an apology. Trump consistently gives them the middle finger. People love that... I love that because the MSM has become too powerful. They are too cozy with establishment politics and anonymous Big Brother operatives.
 
Posts: 7862
Joined: Fri May 15, 2009 7:46 am
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Russia/Trump Connections - Fleshing Out the Story

Postby Soggyblogger on Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:37 am

HawkBowler wrote:
Soggyblogger wrote:It would be quicker to try and find something you said which is true above. Ah, yes, maybe 90% of media reports on Trump are negative. I might agree with that statement, however, the reason is that Trump is 90% full of crap. He lies. His cronies lie. They get caught. They do various things to avoid admitting they lied, but that just keeps the story going. Trump deports dreamers. Trump denies children entering our country but is outraged by those same children being gassed. Trump tweets stupid things. The press reports it. Jeez. Of course they do. It was a stupid tweet by the President of the United States. This isn't high school. I agree with a few of his policies, but the man is a disaster. So, yea, 90% of what I read about Trump is negative.


So why did half the country vote for Trump? Oh, that's right -- they are stupid, racist sexist Hitler wannabes.

This is demagoguery Soggy. We're at a time now where the left should be opposing Trump's agenda. I'm talking about the actual agenda instead of just going after scalps. While Trump is dismantling the EPA, for example, the MSM is focusing on things that don't matter to progressives. Is Trump's tax return the biggest issue we have in this country? Do we really need to debate the last election while raising tensions with Russia?

The media hates Trump because he was the first one to challenge their BS and win. The MSM does the same thing every election cycle. They try to play gotcha, and when a politician makes a mistake, they play holier than thou and demand an apology. Trump consistently gives them the middle finger. People love that... I love that because the MSM has become too powerful. They are too cozy with establishment politics and anonymous Big Brother operatives.


You never answer legitimate questions about or answers to your previous posts - you'd rather move on and then repeat your slogans that you have no factual support for. The liberal bias in the media. No support. Without that one is faced with the reality that Trump is a disaster as President.

You want to Alex Jones everything. See everything as simple with simple answers. The media is this monolithic and LIBERAL conspiracy that is going to destroy our country. Actually, there are tens of thousands of media influences. Infinite maybe. Just as our economy is so complicated economists get Nobel Prizes for figuring out some very small part of our economy that seems highly esoteric and is virtually useless for improving our ability to predict how the economy and therefore the stock market will go. The same goes for politics. It is complicated. Our media is made up of thousands of independent parts that answer to many different forces.

Seeing the media as monolithic is absurd and only the weak minded fall for that.

Why did half the country vote for Trump is another one of those questions that does not have a simple answer. Even long winded and complicated answers would leave too much out. One could write a book on the subject and get criticized for being too simple in its explanation. And what has that got to do with anything, anyways?

Certainly some of them were: "they are stupid, racist sexist Hitler wannabes....." but you see, that is in itself FOUR DIFFERENT reasons people might have voted for Trump. Sexism played a part on both sides of the equation so I'm not convinced it was a huge factor. Racism always plays a part in politics and Republicans almost always are the ones who benefit from these people. Stupidity is one of my favorite reasons to explain Trump's victory, but I know too many above average intelligence people who voted for him and so it doesn't explain much. Hitler wannabes (authoritarianism) is the most quantifiable variable and studies show it was not a big factor in Trump's victory.

No one is debating the last election. Or at least it's not the subject of much discussion amongst liberals, the media, or even your average Joe. The only one who keeps bringing it up is Trump. Should we go down this rabbit hole, HBer? However, if the subject is: Why won't Trump release his Tax Returns? That has little to do with who won the election. It's about a bunch of things. It's about Democracy when it comes down to it. That includes TRANSPARENCY. Open government is good. Back room deals and obscurity is not how government OF THE PEOPLE works best.

Another reason for Trump to release his taxes is ACCOUNTABILITY. In order to assess whether or not a President is complying with the emoluments clause, their tax returns are NECESSARY. Also, Trump might run in 2020. California and many other states are considering the release of 5 past years tax returns as a pre-requisite for getting on the ballot. I support that requirement.

Debating the last election will raise tensions with Russia? Give me a break. If raising tensions with Russia was such a bad thing then why did St. Reagan get so much credit for doing just that? Russia is our enemy. It's no secret. Though plenty of Trumpophiles have altered their position on Russia since Trump seems to admire Putin so much, and it causes dissonance to be in ideological conflict with their new god. But I can remember the day when if a Democrat said anything nice at all about Russia they would have been strung up to the nearest tree. But this is another rabbit hole. Unless you think keeping tensions with Russia low is somehow a PRIORITY ISSUE. I don't. I think there's no reason to walk softly. Ho hum.

".....The MSM does the same thing every election cycle. They try to play gotcha, and when a politician makes a mistake they play holier than thou and demand an apology...." and as anyone knows that has worked against the Democrats as often as Republicans if not more which actually refutes your ridiculous charge the MSM is highly liberal.

"The media hates Trump because he was the first one to challenge their BS and win...." Again with the simple answers to complicated issues. The msm hates Trump is not even an accurate statement, but I'll let it slide. Even if they did generally hate Trump, why they hate him would be just as complicated as why he won.

"I love that [giving the MSM the finger] because the MSM has become too powerful. They are too cozy with establishment politics and anonymous Big Brother operatives. I disagree the msm has become to powerful. Again, this is complicated, and another rabbit hole. They are as powerful as they are. They are also highly diffuse compared to previous generations. That waters down their influence. Actually, I believe the msm has lost a lot of its power compared to previous generations. The extreme wings of the political spectrum have gained voice compared to pre-internet conditions. So, again, this is complicated, and you COULD be wrong even though you wrote that as you write almost every opinion as if it was a FACT.

More than once you have accused me of "missing the big picture", however, I think it is you who miss the big picture because you see the big picture as SIMPLE with SIMPLE ANSWERS. I do not. The world is complicated and accepting simple answers to complicated questions is naive and ignorant.
 
Posts: 2182
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 5:06 pm
Location: Alaska

Re: Russia/Trump Connections - Fleshing Out the Story

Postby HawkBowler on Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:49 pm

Wow, that's quite the diatribe, Soggy. Apparently, you're a card carrying member of the koolaid drinker association.

You never answer legitimate questions about or answers to your previous posts - you'd rather move on and then repeat your slogans that you have no factual support for. The liberal bias in the media. No support. Without that one is faced with the reality that Trump is a disaster as President.


Not even 100 days in and Trump is a disaster? Problem there is that you had that opinion on day one.

No evidence of liberal bias?

In a significant report released Monday, the Center for Public Integrity parsed journalists’ donations to the campaigns of Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump. This year, it amounted to almost $400,000. The organization found that 96 percent went to Mrs. Clinton. Other news organizations have found similar patterns, however. MSNBC, for example, found that out of 143 journalists who made political contributions in the 2004 and 2008 presidential elections, 125 gave only to Democrats, 16 only to Republicans, and two donated to both.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... renched-f/


I also posted a link in this thread to a scientific study showing that nearly 90% of the coverage of Trump was negative. You hate the guy so you believe that's the way it should be, but obviously there's imbalance there. If it were true that Trump deserves 90% negative coverage he wouldn't have been elected president.

You accuse me of being shallow and then you denounce all Trump supporters in entirely shallow terms.

When is the last time you read the book 1984? I recently read it again and what I think Orwell speaks to more than anything is our current MSM. We are closer now to Double Think and Newspeak more than ever before. We are closer to being controlled by nameless/faceless Big Brother more than ever before. Notice how the MSM is constantly reporting news based on comments from anonymous IC people. What's dangerous about that is they allow political attacks to be waged from the shadows... from anonymity. There's no accountability for that.

I think you're kind of stuck in the past in terms of your views on Repubs vs Dems, liberals vs conservative. What we have now is more like one establishment state. Neo-Secular Globalists on both sides of the aisle. Our MSM doesn't challenge that establishment state, they take their marching orders from them. We have the all-time biggest pile on in history because Trump is not part of that establishment structure. This is why Trump faces opposition from the Dems, his own party and most of the media. They want to abort him from the system.

Our politics have become ugly as of late because events are dressed in good vs bad. It's no longer a matter of a difference in opinion. Our side is good and the other side is evil. This is part of the reason why we see so much corruption, skirting of the lines, and dirty politics. If you believe the other side is evil, it's actually your duty to break the law and stop them. Would you obey the law in 1930 if you could keep Hitler from coming to power?

Maybe we can start back at the basics of the Russiagate saga instead of talking over each other. For that we need to agree on facts. You like to string together what you believe are true facts and I do the same. However, we can't both be right... god help us if both Obama and Trump did what they were accused of.

So fact 1: Obama started Russiagate by ordering a report on Russian interference in the election, kicking out diplomats and slapping sanctions on Russia. By doing that he setup a premise that the MSM has not disputed -- Russia hacked the election and wanted Trump to win.

Do you disagree with this starting point? Also, if you believe that Obama was justified in doing the above, why?

Please give me more than the standard untrue line that American intelligence is all in agreement. This report was conducted by a small number of high ranking Obama officials.
 
Posts: 7862
Joined: Fri May 15, 2009 7:46 am
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Russia/Trump Connections - Fleshing Out the Story

Postby SeaFreak on Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:05 am

HawkBowler wrote:
So why did half the country vote for Trump?


Nowhere near half the country voted for Trump. 55% voter turnout * 46% of the votes = 25%. 75% of voting eligible adults did not cast a vote for Donald Trump. Of the 25% that voted for Trump, many of them were just voting against Hillary or voting for their preferred party. So, about 10% of voting age US Citizens were actually Trump fans on election day.
 
Posts: 3862
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2009 4:49 pm
Location: Kansas City, MO

PreviousNext

Return to Rant and Rave - Politics

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: HawkBowler, Soggyblogger and 2 guests

Advertising