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Re: Special Council Mueller

Postby HawkBowler on Thu May 18, 2017 6:47 pm

Don Gorgon wrote:so if Flynn is such a great guy as Trump seems to believe, how about he gets him to cooperate with the investigation, what is it they have to hide anyway?



Trump and his campaign have nothing to hide.

Flynn? Not an easy answer because he took in $500,000 from the Turks and did not declare it. This is a Republican so you don't have to feign ignorance -- this was too much money to be an over-sight. Also, we're talking about a shady Erdogan run Turkey that's quickly slipping into dictatorship.

You're right, Trump knows he's in trouble. He's been defending him publicly, but Flynn faces hard charges.

But that's not about Russia and this whole deal must be Russia Russia Russia. The stakes were raised when Flynn was taken out. That was a political hit job by the Obama people. They were spying on him, they caught him in a lie, leaked the information, sent Sally running over to the White House, etc. Flynn was a big time scalp for the establishment. Sessions was a wounding that put him out of action. But Trump being the the terminator in chief, has taken out Yates and Comey. Key Obama people in highly powerful positions, the heads of both the DOJ and FBI.

The stakes are going up again because we're talking about possible crimes. Jail time. Fall to disgrace. Flynn is on the hook. In hindsight, it's good that he's out. But who else among Trump's entourage should be investigated criminally and for what charge? That question is easier on the other side of that battle where crimes like leaks, obstruction of justice, and spying are already evident. There's a trail to follow but the establishment is not going to like where it leads. And the problem now with the special council is they have to follow the leads to the crimes committed.

That is unless we're in for another ruse.
 
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Re: Special Council Mueller

Postby Don Gorgon on Thu May 18, 2017 6:56 pm

if Trump has nothing to hide then why is he so upset about it being investigated? Seems like someone has something to hide, its hard for me to buy, there is nothing to see here when Flynn is refusing to testify. Seems to me Trump should welcome an investigation to find out the truth
 
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Re: Special Council Mueller

Postby Don Gorgon on Thu May 18, 2017 7:47 pm

that there, quit standing around complaining about being picked on and get something done
Activist investing billionaire Bill Ackman, the CEO of the $11 billion Pershing Square Capital, has some ideas for how Donald J. Trump can fix his presidency.

“I think he’s been disappointing so far,” he said at the SALT Conference in Las Vegas.

“The opportunity to save the Trump presidency is to make business progress and stop focusing on the media,” Ackman said, adding that Trump as has been “picked on.”

After the election, Ackman said that he woke up “bullish” on Trump because the country hasn’t had a pro-business president before. However, he doesn’t think that the American people could tolerate another four years of nothing happening. For Trump, his first plan of action would be to hold a press conference.

“I’d get up in front of the American people. I’d say, ‘look I’m delighted this investigation has been launched. Let’s get to the facts… I’ve got a country to run.'”
 
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Re: Special Council Mueller

Postby HawkBowler on Fri May 19, 2017 8:58 am

Don Gorgon wrote:if Trump has nothing to hide then why is he so upset about it being investigated? Seems like someone has something to hide, its hard for me to buy, there is nothing to see here when Flynn is refusing to testify. Seems to me Trump should welcome an investigation to find out the truth


I keep hearing this argument, but I'm sorry Don, it's a dumb one. Would you like to be investigated by the FBI for over a year even though you've done nothing wrong? Your reputation would be damaged with friends and family.

The establishment has set up a battle where Trump has to prove his innocence against allegations that haven't even been formulated. It should be the other way around where impropriety or wrong doing is discovered before the endless investigations.

I see the battle lines set as scandal vs conspiracy. The establishment arguing that Trump is embroiled in a scandal, whereas the other side is arguing a conspiracy against Trump. Only one side can be right. There's a lot of evidence to support a conspiracy against Trump, zero evidence against Trump. So all this scandal manufacturing is indeed going to lead to a scandal, but it's not what the Dems and Never Trumpers want.

The easiest way to blow up the entire scandal narrative is to revisit the hacking of the DNC. Out of the 17 IC agencies supposedly in agreement with Obama's Big Brother findings, none of them actually inspected the DNC server. The premise is weak and can be easily dismantled. Then you don't even have to worry about collusion on Trump's part, because the Russians were never behind Wikileaks to begin with.
 
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Re: Special Council Mueller

Postby Soggyblogger on Fri May 19, 2017 9:52 am

HawkBowler wrote:
Don Gorgon wrote:if Trump has nothing to hide then why is he so upset about it being investigated? Seems like someone has something to hide, its hard for me to buy, there is nothing to see here when Flynn is refusing to testify. Seems to me Trump should welcome an investigation to find out the truth


There's a lot of evidence to support a conspiracy against Trump, zero evidence against Trump. So all this scandal manufacturing is indeed going to lead to a scandal, but it's not what the Dems and Never Trumpers want.

This is pure BS. Zero evidence against Trump? Well, waiting 18 days to fire a guy that Obama warned him against hiring in the first place, and Lynch warned him that Flynn was compromised. Plus! there's more: Flynn advised Trump he was on Turkey's payroll (and incidentally influenced a military move that helped Turkey) and that he was under investigation already for something nefarious I have forgotten in my old age. My goodness, HBer, this is EVIDENCE of GROSS incompetence at the best. Treason at the worst. There's way way more evidence suggesting Trump may be compromised as well. Money. Follow the money. Oh, Trump refuses to help the investigation in that regard. Then there is the EMOLUMENTS charge that Trump is guilty of every single day he is in office. Selling of visas for a $500,000.00 purchase of Jared's properties which are entangled with Trump properties. OK, I'll stop, but that is far from the end.

The easiest way to blow up the entire scandal narrative is to revisit the hacking of the DNC. Out of the 17 IC agencies supposedly in agreement with Obama's Big Brother findings, none of them actually inspected the DNC server. The premise is weak and can be easily dismantled. Then you don't even have to worry about collusion on Trump's part, because the Russians were never behind Wikileaks to begin with.


This is a rabbit hole I have plugged up three or four times, but instead of answering me, you just repeat this crap like it was new. The Russian scandal started way, way before the DNC was hacked. There were already counter espionage investigations into Flynn by then and the European allies who first informed us of these concerns (with Russians meddling in our elections) started before Trump was even running for President.

Plus, and this is a big one, you don't have anything to substantiate your Obama conspiracy theory. Nothing. It's all based on Alex Jones and others' talking points and conjecture without any facts. It's a house of cards with a foundation of false assumptions.
 
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Re: Special Council Mueller

Postby Don Gorgon on Fri May 19, 2017 10:24 am

see this is the problem Trump is having, he believes he is the boss of a business and everybody works for him, its his justice department and his FBI. Its all there to do his bidding, the deal is its not, justice and the FBI are separate entities. They work independently of the president.

Rod Rosenstein's testimony, Trump didn't fire Comey on the advice of Justice but rather, they supplied a memo after the fact to justify it.
Rosenstein told members of Congress he knew that Trump planned to fire Comey before he wrote his memo. Rosenstein told members of the House of Representatives that he respected Comey, but believed his public handling of the investigation into former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton’s emails went against DOJ regulations.


and here about the FBI, that Trump is firing people because they won't do what he tells them to do, that is not looking very good, and is only going to get him in more and more trouble. He needs to understand the separation of power the government is established on
Comey was preoccupied throughout this period with the need to protect the FBI from inquiries on investigative matters from the White House. Two incidents involving such inquiries have become public: the Flynn discussion and Reince Priebus’s query to Andrew McCabe about whether the then-Deputy FBI Director could publicly dispute the New York Times’ reporting regarding communications between Trump associates and Russian officials. Whether there were other such incidents I do not know, but I suspect there were. What I do know is that Comey spent a great deal of energy doing what he alternately described as “training” the White House that officials had to go through the Justice Department and “reestablishing” normal hands-off White House-Bureau relations.

 
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Re: Special Council Mueller

Postby HawkBowler on Fri May 19, 2017 10:30 am

Soggyblogger wrote:Plus, and this is a big one, you don't have anything to substantiate your Obama conspiracy theory. Nothing. It's all based on Alex Jones and others' talking points and conjecture without any facts. It's a house of cards with a foundation of false assumptions. [/b]


Soggy, I don't expect you to agree with me, but I wish you would stop insulting everyone's intelligence.

I watched CNN last night and was surprised by what Alan Dershowitz said. He's against the special prosecutor because it removes some of the rights normally afforded through the criminal courts. But also... and this is important... Dershowitz says that even if you can find hard evidence that Trump's team colluded with the Russians --- IT'S STILL NOT A CRIME.

So we know the end result of all this investigating already. It's not going to lead to impeachment, even under the best circumstances you can imagine.

Flynn has personal problems given his connection with the Turks. But right now he isn't accused of any crime concerning Russia. Again ZERO EVIDENCE.

As to your claims about no evidence against Obama.... and we should expand that to team Obama just like they're looking into team Trump... the evidence is substantial:

No doubt that felonies were committed against Trump with all the different leaks. These are felonies. Not Whistleblowing... the unmasking and leaking of Michael Flynn, specifically, is a problem for team Obama. They were spying on him.... are you going to deny that? They also orchestrated the leaking of classified information on Flynn... are you going to deny that?

If there was nothing there, Susan Rice would have accepted the invitation to testify in front of the committee. Instead, she backed out. Why? Because it was going to be super embarrassing for her. She would have to plead the fifth on several questions.... why were you collecting dozens of Trump team communications and widely disseminating that information? Did you share this information with Obama? She can't answer any of those questions, and now with a new special council with legal muscle, she's going to be called in. Clapper also has to explain his lies and unmasking.

It's a house of cards with a foundation of false assumptions.


That's an excellent metaphor to describe the entire Russia campaign against Trump. It's not stable at all and certain to come down some time in the near future.
 
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Re: Special Council Mueller

Postby HawkBowler on Fri May 19, 2017 10:37 am

Don Gorgon wrote:see this is the problem Trump is having, he believes he is the boss of a business and everybody works for him, its his justice department and his FBI. Its all there to do his bidding, the deal is its not, justice and the FBI are separate entities. They work independently of the president.


1. The FBI is not a seperate entity from the DOJ, it's part of the DOJ.
2. Trump is in charge of the FBI... did you notice that Trump was able to fire the Director? LOL... who else has that power?

Rod Rosenstein's testimony, Trump didn't fire Comey on the advice of Justice but rather, they supplied a memo after the fact to justify it.


Doesn't matter... again, you're going by a faulty assumption that Trump doesn't have the right to fire Comey.

and here about the FBI, that Trump is firing people because they won't do what he tells them to do, that is not looking very good, and is only going to get him in more and more trouble. He needs to understand the separation of power the government is established on


If anything, Trump hasn't yet figured out the extent of his powers. This is where the 'cry wolf' get's Never Trumpers in trouble. He's done nothing illegal and nothing unethical.
 
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Re: Special Council Mueller

Postby Soggyblogger on Fri May 19, 2017 11:14 am

Hber, I did not read your last post, and you will almost certainly give a another long winded, fact free analysis of things you know so little about you copy and paste from alternate fact sites and put your name on it. I've caught you at it a couple of times in as many investigations. In other words, the two times I thought you had plagiarized a post I found articles from Breitbart you had liberally stolen and put your name on.

So.....I'm not going to bother policing you anymore.
 
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Re: Special Council Mueller

Postby SeaFreak on Fri May 19, 2017 11:16 am

Soggyblogger wrote:This is a rabbit hole I have plugged up three or four times, but instead of answering me, you just repeat this crap like it was new.


HB is full of illogical tendencies, confirmation bias, and reading comprehension calamities. He does exactly what you describe and will have you going in maddening circles. Ultimately, once you know how he operates, it becomes your own personal choice to go tit for tat with such an insufferable dolt.
 
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