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Re: Immigration

Postby HawkBowler on Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:37 pm

kc26 wrote:
Moe Gibbs wrote:I'll bet if you could talk to Yamamoto, he felt FORCED to attack Pearl Harbor.


By the Japanese army, yes he did.


I thought Yamamoto was basically the dictator under the emperor. This was not a good man. He's responsible for the carnage and brutality of millions as you pointed out. Japan conquered a lot of territory. If he wanted to avoid the US it was only out of self preservation.

What if FDR did not put the oil sanctions in place and Japan was allowed to control Asia?

London knew about the Pearl Harbor attack and didn't tell us. They were desperate and really didn't have a sustainable future without American intervention. I wonder if Churchhill played a part in pressuring the US to slap on sanctions, thinking that might drive the US towards war. Maybe FDR knew this would happen as well.
 
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Re: Immigration

Postby Moe Gibbs on Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:15 pm

kc26 wrote:
Moe Gibbs wrote:And so you stubbornly insist that US sanctions had NOTHING to do with it..... :roll:


You have stepped a bit over the line Moe! Please show me where I said that.

What i was arguing was this statement by Hawkbowler ............

but it was FDR's sanctions that forced the attack.


feel free to go back and read the thread if it a refreshing of your memory that is needed.

Certainly the sanctions were a part of the reason for the attack, but your statement is similar to "the bartender wouldn't serve me so I was forced to rob him at gunpoint".


Replace the word FORCED with LEVERAGED, or COMPELLED. I was somehow able to read HB's account of what happened and I knew that he didn't mean that say that FDR actually held a gun to their heads.
 
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Re: Immigration

Postby Moe Gibbs on Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:15 pm

*********************
Last edited by Moe Gibbs on Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: Immigration

Postby Grandma Lynn on Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:24 pm

Let's not forget we were sending our
scrap metal to Japan, they in turn
returned it to us during the war!
 
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Re: Immigration

Postby HawkBowler on Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:45 pm

Moe Gibbs wrote: Replace the word FORCED with LEVERAGED, or COMPELLED. I was somehow able to read HB's account of what happened and I knew that he didn't mean that say that FDR actually held a gun to their heads.


Yeah, I was thinking compelled... set in motion. KC is right to point out the need for accuracy. Japan had a choice. Really difficult at that. Once you control territory, gain resources, it's difficult to give it back. And that would have been the case under the sanctions. They would need to retreat.

FDR might have anticipated that the Japanese would strike an allied territory, giving the US cause to go to war. But he probably never expected Pearl Harbor... at least I hope not. In any event, it was an aggressive move to make Japan halt their war machine. FDR had to expect retaliation after the Japanese walked out of the UN assembly.
 
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Re: Immigration

Postby Grandma Lynn on Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:22 pm

Not that it matters much now, but my
sister's boyfriend went down with his
ship at Pearl Harbor. His name is listed
among all of the sailors that are still
in the ship. Went to the Memorial
years later.
 
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Re: Immigration

Postby HawkBowler on Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:31 pm

kc26 wrote:
Hawkbowler wrote:

London knew about the Pearl Harbor attack and didn't tell us. They were desperate and really didn't have a sustainable future without American intervention.


Huh?

Britain was not at war with the Japanese.

Britain needed the US to help fight Germany, but they had little involvement with Japan until after Pearl Harbor, or actually more correctly the attacks that took place simultaneous to the attack on Pearl Harbor. Namely their less publicized attacks on British held Malaya, Singapore, and Hong Kong also on Dec 7th.


bit of a conspiracy still, but I think there's weight behind the Brits knowing about the impending attack and not telling the US. They were further along in terms of breaking code.

http://corregidor.org/crypto/chs_crypto1/jn25.htm
 
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Re: Immigration

Postby Moe Gibbs on Wed Mar 14, 2018 5:52 am

The timing of some of the revelations interest me, because it was 1979 or 1980 when I took the History class that explored the possibility that the Pearl Harbor Attack was allowed to happen.
I haven't read any "debunkings" that explain why England was restricting the free flow of Krypto-intel to us even though we supplied them with massive amounts of intel-support.
 
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Re: Immigration

Postby Grandma Lynn on Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:15 pm

Even as a kid, it was after the war, not
the Civlil War :lol: , that rumors were
spreading that Roosevelt knew that we
were going to be attacked. Memory
might be somewhat wrong. But I know
there were rumors that he knew we
were going to war. (This is how rumors
spread, passing on what you think was
planned, or heard).
No one wanted to believe that there was
any wrong doings.
 
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Re: Immigration

Postby Grandma Lynn on Mon Apr 02, 2018 12:52 pm

An update on immigration:
We have always been called the
"melting pot" as far as immigration
was concerned.
"Melting" meant that when you
immigrated to the U.S. you would
become a citizen of the U.S. That
meant that you would fit in as a
citizen, love your new country and
be part of it, in every way.
Not march with your country of the
past flag flying, denouncing America,
trying to change America to your
way of living when you were in your
past country. And yet, taking from us.
Our money to live a decent life here,
for one. Being supported by our U.S..
healthcare, food supplied, job given
to you, and then they spit on us and
worse. Forgot housing too. Build
that wall, anything to keep these
kind of people out. Let the good people
in who want this life we have. Or had??
 
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