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Immigration

Postby Soggyblogger on Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:23 am

I was going to finally respond to the DACA thread, but I saw that some Republicans are now asking to basically shut down ALL immigration into our country, so I think we might discuss the bigger issue of immigration rather than just DACA. So feel free to give us your opinion on immigration generally, but DACA as well. Is immigration a good thing? Why?

DACA is a huge issue at this point in time as many Democrats are calling to use the leverage they have on FUNDING our Government to tie the DACA issue with funding. DACA is also a huge issue because of the number of people involved. I've seen 800,000 as an estimate of the number of people inside our country who are here on temporary visas, but KNOW NO OTHER COUNTRY AS HOME.

Many, even Trump, have expressed sympathy for the plight of the DACA's, who entered our country as children, and who were given a VISA by Obama so long as they have not committed any illegal acts while here. The purpose was to allow them to work and grow without stigma and to not fear reporting crimes, etc.

800,000 is not a small number. Many of them have grown into young adults at this point in time, and have jobs in our economy. Many are well educated and working for companies like Google and Microsoft. Both of those companies have expressed to our government that the contributions to those companies is not insignificant.

In other words, we are talking about people who have assimilated. Who are contributing members of society. Importantly, they are young. Since they have visas now (thanks to Obama) they pay their taxes and contribute to Social Security and have healthcare insurance. For all practical purposes they are Americans. Culturally, and economically they are Americans.

Setting aside the morality issues of DACA, just from a selfish standpoint, sending them all back to whatever country they were born in is not going to help our country, but hurt it in many seen and unseen ways. We'd lose their investments in Social Security making it less solvent. We'd lose young and generally healthy people paying for health insurance offsetting some of us old people who are more of a strain on that system than otherwise. We'd lose a lot of bright contributing employees in virtually every segment of our society.

Forcibly removing these people from our country will be shooting ourselves in the foot. What advantages are there to sending these people back?
 
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Re: Immigration

Postby HawkBowler on Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:13 am

Soggyblogger wrote:Forcibly removing these people from our country will be shooting ourselves in the foot. What advantages are there to sending these people back?


I haven't heard of anyone advocating mass deportation. What you didn't touch on in your illegal immigrant love post are the negative effects of allowing and encouraging mass migration of unskilled and uneducated people. The only people this helps are the rich who save on labor costs and don't have to deal with labor regulations. The net affect on middle class America is wage stagnation, because immigrants work for less.

Personally, I'm in favor of giving all 12 million illegal immigrants a path to citizenship. But this must come with changes to the laws that discourage and prevent illegal immigration. The Dems not only want to give amnesty to DACA people, they also want to give it to the parents and siblings of those people to bring the total to around 3 million. The original argument they used is that DACA kids broke no laws of their own volition. They were brought here and have known no other country. Fine, but can the same be true of the parents? Surely, they knew what they were doing. Why should they receive amnesty?

The Dems are completely disingenuous when it comes to ending illegal immigration. They don't want to make any of the moves that might accomplish that goal, whether it's building the wall and beefing up border security or instituting e-verify so employers can no longer hire illegals. What is your stance on ending illegal immigration, Soggy? Because if that's not addressed and we hand out amnesty by the millions, we will be right back here again in 10 years trying to figure out what to do with the new 10 million illegals who crossed the border since the last amnesty hand out.
 
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Re: Immigration

Postby Grandma Lynn on Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:49 pm

This is a mess, to say the least!
Like kc26 said, have them become
citizens. And please, let's not have
it take forever.
As for the parents of these DACA's,
did they ever become citizens? Guess
not, if their children aren't.
If some don't want to become American
citizen's, well, bye bye!
I know, sounds too simple and it probably
is. Something must be done and done
correctly, whatever that may be.
 
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Re: Immigration

Postby HawkBowler on Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:01 pm

Yep, Trump doesn't have the power to extend DACA unless he wants to issue an Obama style executive order. Fat chance of that happening unless he wants his own base to start calling for his impeachment. The ticking clock is now set at March 5th. After that date, great tears and gnashing of teeth will happen when DACA people start getting deported.

And who will be to blame?

The Dems who didn't come to the table in good faith. The Dems who would rather use this issue to bash Trump as a racist rather than solve the problem.

It's win-win for Trump.
 
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Re: Immigration

Postby HawkBowler on Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:48 pm

Two big developments on immigration. I'll post this in Soggy's immigration thread so that he can stay involved.

1. The DOJ skipped the federal court of appeals and will send to SCOTUS the federal court judge's ruling that Tump can not end DACA.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/16/us/p ... court.html

2. Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen orders federal prosecutors to look into criminal charges for sanctuary city leaders that refuse to follow federal immigration law.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/20 ... y-leaders/

The first one is easy, a federal judge from San Francisco does not have the authority to unilaterally determine immigration law. If Obama had the authority to create the DACA executive order, Trump has the authority to resend it.

The second one is really big news. It's one thing to talk tough and refuse federal mandate when it comes to protecting illegal aliens, it's another to go to jail for those beliefs. Maybe we have some politico martyrs out there but I doubt it.
 
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Re: Immigration

Postby Grandma Lynn on Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:17 pm

Seattle is such a , wait, I can't say that,
city that goes against the gov't.
You see the blow hards preaching about
not doing what's the law. Now look at
what Seattle is becoming. Anyone afraid
to go downtown?
 
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Re: Immigration

Postby Moe Gibbs on Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:39 pm

"Forcibly removing these people from our country will be shooting ourselves in the foot. What advantages are there to sending these people back?"
Soggyblogger


Why should I accept the statement above as some sort of Article Of Fact...?

First it sends a strong message to future "immigrants" that THEY will be "shooting themselves in the foot" by trying to enter illegally.

It takes the unemployable ones off the welfare rolls, out of the lines at the Emergency Rooms, off the streets that they roam all day looking for things to steal and other crimes.

For the Illegals that have jobs, it gives those jobs back to legitimate citizens. It helps to destroy the illegitimate, non taxpaying fly-by-night SCAB LABOR MAFIA.

I don't care if ICE can only average 5 deportations per day. It's a start. Eventually it will gain momentum with consistent pressure applied throughout the USA.

It also creates more work for our military and para-military that many taxpayers should be glad to support.

Finally, it throws a BIG WRENCH into the NWO Agenda to make Whites a minority in every civilized nation on Earth.
It also shrinks the ranks of the Democrat Party's most impressive herd of government dependent, OVINE cattle.
 
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Re: Immigration

Postby Soggyblogger on Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:35 am

HawkBowler wrote:Yep, Trump doesn't have the power to extend DACA unless he wants to issue an Obama style executive order. Fat chance of that happening unless he wants his own base to start calling for his impeachment. The ticking clock is now set at March 5th. After that date, great tears and gnashing of teeth will happen when DACA people start getting deported.

And who will be to blame?

The Dems who didn't come to the table in good faith. The Dems who would rather use this issue to bash Trump as a racist rather than solve the problem.

It's win-win for Trump.


The Dems and the Repubs were told on NATIONAL TV by Trump in no uncertain words: "Bring me a bill and I will sign it..." even if it had things he didn't like. He said that. He repeated it. "I will sign it" he said.

So the Dems and Repubs in "GOOD FAITH" brought Trump a BI-PARTISAN BILL, and that is when Trump reneged on his promise to "sign whatever you bring me". So it is Trump who LIED and is not bargaining in "good faith."
 
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Re: Immigration

Postby Soggyblogger on Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:37 am

kc26 wrote:
For all practical purposes they are Americans. Culturally, and economically they are Americans.


Simple answer for me is .............. become citizens.

I am all in favor of an overhaul of all the red tape it takes to become a citizen, but IMO if you are not going to put out the effort to become a citizen, then you do not have the rights of a citizen.


Nice idea, but the "Dreamers" don't have a path to citizenship unless they have family who are citizens already.
 
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Re: Immigration

Postby HawkBowler on Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:22 am

Soggyblogger wrote:
The Dems and the Repubs were told on NATIONAL TV by Trump in no uncertain words: "Bring me a bill and I will sign it..." even if it had things he didn't like. He said that. He repeated it. "I will sign it" he said.

So the Dems and Repubs in "GOOD FAITH" brought Trump a BI-PARTISAN BILL, and that is when Trump reneged on his promise to "sign whatever you bring me". So it is Trump who LIED and is not bargaining in "good faith."


Trump pissed off more conservatives like Limbaugh and Coulter with that talk than he did the Dems. They were like, "WTF, he said in no uncertain terms that if people want to become citizens they will have to leave the country and come back in legally. No amnesty in no uncertain terms."

And I'm sorry, this is such a stupid argument on the part of the Dems, "He said he would sign ANY bill that we put in front of him." Do they think he's stupid?

Besides, Trump laid out what he expected: Funding for the Wall, e-verify, end chain migration and the diversity lottery. He told the two parties to work out a deal and he would sign it. In other words, come to a compromise people, and if I see it as in the best interests of the country, I will make the deal even though I may not get everything I wanted up front. This is how deals are made. Compromise.

The Dems didn't compromise. They insisted on a clean Dream act that gives Amnesty to DACA, their parents and siblings. Raising the total amnesty number from 700,000 to around 3 million. And what are they willing to give up in return for that generous give? Nothing. No wall, no e-verify, and certainly no end to family reunification that's changing the political map in the Dems favor.
 
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